Buick in China: A lesson in the plasticity of car culture.

"Noah - Now with more boost." (antriebverliebt)
05/23/2016 at 10:19 • Filed to: None

It’s easy to forget that even the most basic assumptions we make on Oppo don’t apply everywhere. We’re an international community with a wide range of different tastes and opinions, but despite that we can all agree on a few things. For example: minivans are for hauling families and Buick isn’t a byword for luxurious exclusivity. Sounds like common sense, right?

Not in China. I just looked into the Chinese perception of Buick and I found out a few interesting things. I knew they had an unusual interest in the brand, but wanted to know why. Apparently, driving a big foreign car is conspicuous in China. They’re status symbols. And for the Chinese, a Buick epitomizes the classic “big American car” like no other US manufacturer does.

The brand does extremely well over there, so well that they’ve come out with a Chinese market version of their... minivan. That’s right. The stylish interior pictured here is from the Buick GL8 - a special luxury trim line. Businessmen like the spaciousness of minivans and these things sell in droves over there. That fascinates me. If bigger is better, you’d think something like an Escalade or a Navigator would be the hottest car. But vans don’t come with the same soccer mom stigma in China. It’s big, it’s luxurious, and it’s American - so it’s cool.

DISCUSSION (28)

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > Noah - Now with more boost.
05/23/2016 at 10:27

I wonder if a lot of the minivan stigma is because manufacturers here persist in the blinkered idea that a nice minivan won’t sell, so they never offer one, and then people don’t want a minivan because it isn’t “nice” and perceive minivan fit and finish to be for the poors... Even a VW Routan isn’t that much of a cut above the GC/Town & Country it was based on. Obviously it would cut into the premium SUV and crossover offerings as well, but I don’t think it’s impossible to sell a premium van - just hasn’t really been done.

Berang > Noah - Now with more boost.
05/23/2016 at 10:28

American cars have some snob appeal in Japan too. It’s why they also like Harleys.

Ash78, voting early and often > Noah - Now with more boost.
05/23/2016 at 10:34

First, the Chinese fascination with Buick may be the only reason Buick even survives today. It's also basically the only reason Buick survives in the US, since GM is now loosely copying their Chinese strategy. If you're under 25, you might not remember that Buick is only about two car generations removed from being a brand that nobody under 60 would be caught dead driving. I would absolutely drive this van far sooner than I would drive their current minivan, which they call the Enclave...

Noah - Now with more boost. > Berang
05/23/2016 at 10:35

Interesting, I wonder if the snob appeal idea applies wherever there are expensive taxes that come with driving a large car. That would make sense.

Noah - Now with more boost. > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht
05/23/2016 at 10:36

Yeah it surprises me that the Chinese aren’t more interested in Van alternatives - but don’t get me wrong, I appreciate the comfort/space of sitting in one of those big second row pilot chairs Vans often have.

Noah - Now with more boost. > Ash78, voting early and often
05/23/2016 at 10:38

Yeah Buick is definitely on its way out in the US. I’ve been waiting for them to call it quits but they just won’t go away haha. They make some decent sedans but they’re just not strong enough to stand out. I rarely see new Buicks in my area of the US

xyzabc > Noah - Now with more boost.
05/23/2016 at 10:43

“In China, Buick is everything it wants to be in the United States. The nameplate is seen as among the hottest luxury brands. And it enjoys rich historical ties. The last emperor Pu Yi owned two Buicks. The last provisional president Sun Yat-Sen, regarded as the father of modern China, had one. So did the first premier Zhou Enlai.” - Todd C. Franekl (Washington Post)

Noah - Now with more boost. > xyzabc
05/23/2016 at 10:45

Now THATS the kind of info I was hoping for, thank you. I knew there had to be some kind of pop culture connection (national leadership)

gawdzillla > Noah - Now with more boost.
05/23/2016 at 10:48

car (truck) owners do not tow stuff in china, so theres no need for body on frame SUVs

you can do / fit so much more stuff inside a van’s interior over the SUV thats why you dont see any escalade there.

Ash78, voting early and often > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht
05/23/2016 at 10:49

They can make a ton more offering true BOF SUVs, followed by crossovers. Minivans get mistreated by owners and their kids, are treated as appliances far more than other vehicles, and hold very little value on the secondary market. These are all reasons why the segment loses a lot of luster, but it's not beyond repair. It's just on the back burner for a while..

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > Noah - Now with more boost.
05/23/2016 at 10:50

Yeah I find these kind of dichotomies really interesting.

One of them from the 60s I find particularly interesting is the press reaction to the 240Z over here in the UK.

As you probably know, the 240Z was a great success in the States and won much praise from journalists.

Over here, each review I’ve read from when it was new has been very critical. Even though they stiffened the suspension for European markets, it was still criticised for being too softly sprung. One review even said that if they’d known that this was the way the sports car market was headed, they wouldn’t have been so damning of the MG C when it came out (a car that got a panning by the UK press).

Price may have something to do with it as the UK still heavily taxed imports at that point, but it's interesting nonetheless.

Noah - Now with more boost. > gawdzillla
05/23/2016 at 10:54

re: the lack of towing, that’s a great explanation, makes sense. IDK about more cargo space tho(the latest body on on frame monstrosities are HUGE man).

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > Ash78, voting early and often
05/23/2016 at 10:54

That’s kind of what my point was - that a minivan is a cheap appliance vehicle that people expect to be a cheap appliance vehicle which then is led to remain as a cheap appliance vehicle... A nice trim level Kia Sorento owned by a soccer mom is mistreated on a pretty equal footing, but MORE PREMIUM BECAUSE SUV.

Noah - Now with more boost. > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires
05/23/2016 at 10:58

Maybe US and UK auto journos were just used to different suspension setups? Stiff sports cars were common in Europe but still a rarity in the US at that point, and everyone drove big floaty barges. Maybe the 240 was stiff by American standards and soft by European ones? Totally BSing here, but that’s my guess

Ash78, voting early and often > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht
05/23/2016 at 10:58

Yep, exactly — it's a downward spiral. But the funny thing about the minivan is at the 20-year mark, it's still being driven around by roofers and construction workers because it's basically a cheap pickup with better cargo security. Never underestimate people's (especially women's) sensitivities to fashion. And right now, the "meat" of the carbuying world are people who grew up in Chrysler minivans. It's funny how ugly-ass aviator sunglasses, boat shoes, and pastel shorts can make a comeback, but not vans. Nostalgia is very selective.

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > Ash78, voting early and often
05/23/2016 at 10:58

I actually really like the Enclave.

Ash78, voting early and often > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To
05/23/2016 at 11:00

I do, too — several friends have them and we almost bought one. It’s a well built and nice-driving vehicle, I’m just pointing out that the Lambdas are just minivan pretenders. Just like the Explorer is now.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > Ash78, voting early and often
05/23/2016 at 11:06

It’s worth recognizing that Astros/Safaris are about the best handyman van In The World. Chrysler vans, somewhat less so. The Astro even had an LT (Luxury Touring) trim which is pretty nice, but those days are probably behind us in terms of the mentality - it’s not that “nice vans” haven’t existed, but they didn’t sell so well Way Back Then. However, for that matter, neither did Nice Version Suburbans, so why should that be the tide marker?

And yes, I somewhat had you and your experiences with Honda in mind when thinking of the “minivans are crap and sold as crap so who cares” mentality - Toyota is still making a decent if not stellar van, but Honda seems to have at least for this generation had a “fuck it - who cares?!” epiphany.

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > Noah - Now with more boost.
05/23/2016 at 11:08

Yeah I expect that’s the case, although given the state of the roads in the UK it’s a surprising preference. Plus, the vast majority of British sports cars were produced for the US market so I’d think that the sports car crowd would be used to a jarring ride.

I’d also suspect significant bias from the British press against rival sports cars. In the late 60s the star of the British sports car was only just starting to wane so I’m certain there was a lot of strong patriotic feeling for the local produce.

Saying that, they slated the C and that was home-grown so I’d bet they just expected a bit more stiffness from a sports car.

Another dynamic is that by the late 60s/early 70s the muscle car as a youth hoonmobile was dying, killed as a market segment by sky-high insurance premiums and rising fuel prices.

The 240Z would have neatly swept up quite a few of the people who would otherwise have bought a smallblock pony car or similar.

That's a market that MG should have been there to sweep up as well, but they didn't have the product at the right time to do so (but that's a whole different story, that actually has very little to do with the 'British cars are badly made' stereotype that persists to this day).

LJ909 > Noah - Now with more boost.
05/23/2016 at 11:12

Back when I sold cars at a Pontiac Buick GMC dealer back in 09, I cant tell you how many Chinese nationalist we had come in with interpreters ( if they didn’t speak English) looking for Lucernes. The then new Lacrosse didn’t appeal to them. They always wanted Lucernes. It was there I first learned of how Buick was in China and I thought it was crazy.

This GL8 could work here as a good competitor to the only American Van left Chrysler Pacifica, but we all still have a bad taste in our mouths from this:

Kinja'd!!!

GM messed up vans for them here in the US by trying to make a van look like an SUV at the same time.

Noah - Now with more boost. > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires
05/23/2016 at 11:14

Yes I do remember watching something, maybe one of James May’s “cars of the people” videos where he dug into the anti-Japanese import sentiment that surrounded the death of BL. We had something similar here, when detroit began to shrink as imports became popular.

Noah - Now with more boost. > LJ909
05/23/2016 at 11:16

Hahah I love the thought of Chinese businessmen coming to the US and confusing Buick salesmen. “You want the van? To treat it like a limo?? Ok...”

Ash78, voting early and often > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht
05/23/2016 at 11:26

I would beg to differ on the Sienna — I consider it just as crappy as the Honda in most ways. I just think that most companies have been Phoning it In on minivans for at least 10 years now. I honestly believe the new Pacifica is going to change that a bit (IMHO, the new Sedona is already a solid notch better than the competition, but sales numbers are slim). Another one that I ONLY see driven by laborers — the Nissan Quest and Mercury Villager. I forget about those until I drive by a construction site and there's always at least one.

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > Noah - Now with more boost.
05/23/2016 at 11:26

Yeah I saw that one. Very interesting indeed.

I'm actually writing an article at the moment about what caused the decline of the British car industry, and it's not something that I've ever seen covered by any article I've seen so far except for the excellently informed AROnline :)

xyzabc > Noah - Now with more boost.
05/23/2016 at 11:33

NP.... Closet thing I can equate it to here in the USA is maybe the enduring connection with Marlon Brando / “On the Water Front” and a Harley.

That’d be a great topic for the “ Oppo Brain Trust ” to explore...

xyzabc > Noah - Now with more boost.
05/23/2016 at 11:38

The last couple Buick concept vehicles make any “vision” from Lincoln look almost 15 years old. IMHO

gawdzillla > Noah - Now with more boost.
05/23/2016 at 11:46

A modern minivan will have more people and luggage room than the SUV (Tahoe) with 2 or 3 rolls. Unless all 6 of you are over 6' tall, you’ll be reasonably comfortable, putting the shortest 2 people in the 3rd roll. definitely more comfortable, space wise than any rental SUV.

from Truck Trend:

Second/Third Row Legroom
Dodge Grand Caravan: 36.5/32.7 in.
Dodge Durango: 38.6/31.5 in.

Cargo Space Behind Third/Second Row
Dodge Grand Caravan: 33.0/83.3 cu.-ft.
Dodge Durango: 17.2/47.7 cu.-ft.

Turning Radius
Dodge Grand Caravan: 39.1 feet
Dodge Durango: 37.1 feet

Bottom Line
The Grand Caravan for maximum space; the Durango for image-conscious buyers with a boat to tow.

Noah - Now with more boost. > gawdzillla
05/23/2016 at 12:03

ahhhh ok that’s a good set of facts and figures